Walk with Susan Joachim | Forest Therapy and the Art of Noticing

Oct 20

Episode Summary: What happens when we slow down enough to really notice the natural world around us?

In this episode of ROOTED, I walk with Susan Joachim, president and founding member of the International Nature and Forest Therapy Alliance (INFTA), to explore forest therapy, the science behind nature's influence on our wellbeing, and how paying attention can deepen our connection with the natural world.

Together, we consider how slowing down, engaging our senses, and spending time outdoors can help us reconnect with nature—and why that connection may be where caring for it begins.

Show Notes

What might change if we approached time outdoors with curiosity rather than a destination in mind?

Susan Joachim's relationship with nature has taken her from childhood days playing outside in Sri Lanka to the mountains and forests of Australia, where she rediscovered the freedom to explore after years shaped by civil war.

Today, as president and founding member of the International Nature and Forest Therapy Alliance (INFTA), Susan is working to advance forest therapy as a research-informed public health practice.

Our conversation explores what forest therapy actually involves, how it differs from hiking or traditional talk therapy, and why slowing down and engaging our senses can change our experience of the natural world.

We also discuss attention restoration theory, the growing amount of time we spend indoors and on screens, and the importance of making meaningful nature experiences accessible to more people.

Susan's perspective invites us to consider nature not simply as a place for recreation, but as part of the conditions that support human wellbeing.

And throughout our conversation, we return to a question that extends beyond forest therapy: How does our relationship with nature influence our willingness to care for it?

Key Themes

1. From covering miles to paying attention…

Susan's experience in the Blue Ridge Mountains illustrates a shift from destination-focused hiking to a slower, more sensory relationship with nature. The conversation explores how changing our pace can change what we notice.

2. What forest therapy actually is…

Forest therapy isn't a hike, a natural history lesson, or traditional talk therapy. Susan describes a guided practice that uses sensory invitations, quiet walking, and curiosity to help participants connect with their surroundings.

3. The science of nature and attention…

We explore attention restoration theory and stress reduction theory, two research traditions that help explain why time in natural environments may support psychological restoration and wellbeing.

4. Nature connection, safety, and belonging…

Susan reflects on growing up outdoors in Sri Lanka, the loss of safety during the civil war, and the sense of freedom and community she found through bushwalking after moving to Australia.

5. Nature as part of public health…

Susan shares her vision for forest therapy as an accessible, professionally guided practice supported by research, collaboration, and public health systems.

Key Takeaways

Slowing down changes the experience. Forest therapy asks us to shift from doing and achieving toward sensing, noticing, and being present.
Nature connection can be practiced. A guided session may help people develop the attention and awareness they can bring into everyday encounters with nature.
The environment matters for wellbeing. Our conversation considers how natural surroundings, daily routines, and opportunities for restoration influence our health.
Access to nature is also a question of equity. Susan's vision extends beyond individual experiences to making forest therapy available to people regardless of their ability to pay.
Caring grows through relationship. When we spend time noticing and appreciating the living world, we may begin to see our responsibility toward it differently.

“We will only protect what we love. And how do we fall in love with nature? ... You connect to nature, you walk with reverence.”

— Susan Joachim

Connect with Susan Joachim

Susan Joachim is a forest therapy practitioner and the president and founding member of the International Nature and Forest Therapy Alliance (INFTA). Her work focuses on developing forest therapy as a research-informed public health practice and expanding access to guided nature experiences.

Website: https://infta.net

INFTA is also active on Instagram and Facebook.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/foresttherapyaustralia/

Resources Mentioned

These are some of the ideas, organizations, and authors referenced during our conversation:

International Nature and Forest Therapy Alliance (INFTA) — https://infta.net
Shinrin-yoku (forest bathing) — The Japanese practice that helped inspire Susan's exploration of forest therapy.
Attention Restoration Theory — Research associated with Rachel and Stephen Kaplan on the restorative qualities of natural environments.
Stress Reduction Theory — Research associated with Roger Ulrich on natural environments and stress recovery.
Richard Louv — Author associated with the concept of nature-deficit disorder.
Robin Wall Kimmerer — Author whose work explores relationships between people, plants, and the living world.
Suzanne Simard — Forest ecologist whose research examines relationships among trees and underground fungal networks.
Robert Macfarlane, The Lost Words — A book exploring the language we use to describe and relate to nature.

Reflection Questino: When was the last time you noticed something in nature that you might have walked right past on another day?

What made that moment different?

Prefer to read? The full conversation transcript is available below.

Lightly edited for clarity and readability.
Susan Morgan Bailey: Welcome, Susan. It's wonderful to have you here today.
Susan Joachim: Thank you, Susan, for reaching out all the way from America to Australia and inviting me to your podcast. I really appreciate the opportunity.
Susan Morgan Bailey: We're heading into fall, and you're heading into spring. I'm a tiny bit jealous! But in the last couple of years, I've really been leaning into appreciating every season, because they're all important, and they all have qualities that are just what they need to be.
Susan Joachim: Absolutely. And here in Australia, talking about the seasons, I'd like to give you a little context.
In Australia, whenever we talk about nature, we start by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land. Today, I'd like to acknowledge the Wadawurrung people, who have walked on Country as custodians, not owners.
A couple of years ago, I attended a Welcome to Country hosted by an Aboriginal elder. He pointed out to us that traditional Indigenous people walked on Country as good custodians. He invited us to reflect on what it means to be a good custodian.
It's about walking on land with awareness, with reverence, and with a willingness to protect what we have.
As Jacques Cousteau said many years ago, "We will only protect what we love."
And how do we fall in love with nature? We connect to nature. We walk with reverence.
That's where I'd like to start.
I wasn't born in Australia. I was born in Sri Lanka, and when I came to Australia in 2010, I didn't understand the seasons and what they meant to the traditional custodians.
Here in Victoria, we have six seasons. Right now, we're in the season of Punit, the season of the tadpoles.
When I walk outside in my local nature reserve, I hear the frogs. They're loud! It's that crossover between late winter and early summer.
We notice what's happening in nature. We hear the frogs and see the little frothy blobs on the water.
I'm fascinated by these transitions. We've just moved from the season of the orchids. A month ago, you would have seen wild orchids. Now you hear the frogs.
These seasons have different names and indicators depending on where you are in Australia. I find that fascinating.
Susan Morgan Bailey: You've already got my brain thinking about what I'm noticing as we transition from summer to fall.
I like the way you talk about that. It reminds me of someone I had on the podcast from Japan, where they recognize many more seasonal transitions.
When we pay attention and connect with people who have lived in relationship with the land for generations, there's so much more to see.
Susan Joachim: To see, to notice, and to bring into our being.
You notice something. You stand there, listen, get quiet, and breathe. And then it infuses every part of who you are, because we are nature.
Susan Morgan Bailey: We are nature.
How about your relationship with nature growing up? Have you always had this close connection?
Growing Up in Sri Lanka
Susan Joachim: Yes. Although when you're growing up, you don't think about it the way you do as an adult.
In Sri Lanka, we lived quite close to the beach. My dad would gather the neighborhood children, and we'd all go to the beach for a Sunday picnic.
I still remember running barefoot on the golden sands of Mount Lavinia. We'd have homemade sandwiches, and then, in the afternoon, while our parents were napping, all the children would come outside.
There were no phones or text messages. Somehow, we all knew when it was time to play.
We played cricket in the streets. There were hardly any cars, so when someone shouted, "Car!" we'd all rush to the side. My school friends and I still laugh about that.
We were always outdoors, finding birds and little fish in ponds, exploring and playing.
I still have close school friends from 50 or 60 years ago. We talk about those experiences and that age of innocence.
But then everything changed.
Sri Lanka experienced a civil war that lasted about 30 years. That innocence was taken away from the generations that followed, including my son.
When he went to school, I was a frightened mother, wondering whether he'd come home safely.
It was a sad time. Many of us left the country because we were afraid for our lives.
And it took away something from our children.
When I think about what's happening in the world even today, it makes me sad. We should never let this happen. We should always have the human right to nature.
Why can't we do better?
Susan Morgan Bailey: It's okay. Take your time.
Susan Joachim: When I came to Australia, I rediscovered the ability to feel safe in nature.
I arrived as an adult in my forties, and suddenly that freedom was offered to me again.
I became an avid hiker because I found a community of bushwalkers who welcomed me. They taught me how to hike safely, how to navigate the bush, and skills I'd never had before.
I felt welcomed by Australia.
That experience eventually led me toward forest therapy.
I came from a country where it's around 30 degrees Celsius almost every day. And suddenly, I found myself snow camping on top of a mountain in Victoria!
People don't necessarily think of snow when they think of Australia.
But I was a bit of a daredevil, so I bought the gear and went snow camping.
It makes you feel alive. You're testing what your body can withstand, while being sensible and properly prepared.
You also realize you can survive for a week with what you carry on your back.
When you come home after a week without a shower and turn on the tap, you're grateful. You're grateful for clean water and the comfort of a safe home.
But you also realize how little you actually need: fresh water, fresh air, some food.
Of course, I enjoy modern comforts. We're using technology right now to connect across thousands of kilometers.
But there's a balance. Going outside reminds us that we are nature.
Discovering Forest Therapy
Susan Morgan Bailey: You're inspiring me to return to snow camping! I did it many times as a child, but it's been a long time.
You mentioned forest therapy, which is one of the ways I found you.
For listeners who aren't familiar with the term, can you explain what forest therapy means?
Susan Joachim: I'd love to.
It's a practice inspired by the Japanese concept of shinrin-yoku, or forest bathing, which emerged in the 1980s.
I hadn't heard of it until I had a personal experience in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia.
My mother was turning 70, and all she wanted was to spend time with her two daughters.
Typically, in Sri Lankan culture, we might have a big celebration. But she said she didn't want any of that. She just wanted to spend time in nature.
We booked a beautiful house overlooking the Blue Ridge Mountains.
At that point, I was a very serious hiker. I used to tell my friends, "Don't call me if the hike is less than 15 kilometers."
It was all about the destination rather than the journey.
But walking with Mum meant slowing down.
My sister and I would take her on afternoon walks. We'd talk about our dad, our childhood, and our memories of growing up.
One afternoon, in the dappled sunlight of the Appalachian forest, I looked up and saw a single leaf.
The sunlight was filtering through it, and I could see every vein and every contour.
It was an extraordinary moment.
I'd had many moving experiences in nature while hiking, but this was different.
I didn't say anything to my sister or my mother. I just let the experience wash over me.
Later, when I returned to my sister's house, I sat at her computer and typed words into Google: green, sunlight, relaxation, meditation, spirituality.
And the word shinrin-yoku appeared.
When I read about slowing down and connecting with nature through the senses, I thought, "That's it. That's exactly what I experienced."
Suddenly, that felt sense had a name.
I began exploring where the practice came from.
In Japan during the 1980s, people were experiencing significant stress and burnout, particularly in workplaces where long hours had become common.
Researchers began studying what happened when people spent time in forests.
They looked at physiological measures, including cortisol, and explored the potential health benefits of forest environments.
As the research developed, forest therapy emerged as a practice with a scientific foundation.
That's the approach we wanted to advance through the International Nature and Forest Therapy Alliance, or INFTA.
We wanted a clear definition of forest therapy as a research-based public health practice.
Our goal is for forest therapy to be recognized as a discipline and to become accessible through public health systems.
Imagine being able to receive a forest therapy prescription from your doctor and attend a guided session without worrying about whether you can afford it.
We believe access to green spaces and opportunities to connect with nature should be available to everyone.
That requires ongoing research, collaboration, and recognition.
Susan Morgan Bailey: That's a great explanation.
What interests me about INFTA is its emphasis on evidence.
The scientist in me is always looking for the research, although I also recognize that there are experiences we can feel and understand even when the science hasn't fully explained them.
Susan Joachim: Absolutely.
It was that felt experience that first brought me to forest therapy.
And that's one of the beautiful things about this field. It's informed by many disciplines, including mindfulness, ecology, physiology, and psychology.
Forest therapy draws from decades of research, including attention restoration theory and stress reduction theory.
It also invites us to think more broadly about health.
Health isn't only about someone's physical condition. It's influenced by mental health, environment, socioeconomic circumstances, and the way we live.
I've even been asking whether technology should become part of how we think about these influences, because it's shaping so much of modern life.
One of the first things we ask people to do during a forest therapy session is switch from screen time to green time.
We invite everyone to put their phones away together.
For some people, that's difficult. But afterward, participants often tell us they're grateful because they noticed things they wouldn't otherwise have seen.
They had space for reflections and thoughts.
Sometimes those reflections are joyful. Sometimes nature brings us face-to-face with difficult realities, including death, illness, and change.
Those things are part of life too.
Forest therapy has taught me a great deal over the years about living with that complexity.
Children, Nature, and the Practice of Noticing
Susan Joachim: I think it's important that we get children outside.
My sister is a forest therapy guide in Virginia, and she was offered funding through her Montessori school to organize a nature week.
She created little stations around the outdoor garden. It was quite hot, so they chose an earlier part of the day.
After the week was over, she told me the children still came up to her, pulling on her sleeve and saying, "Come outside! I've seen a bee, or a butterfly, or a nest!"
By giving them access to nature through their senses rather than through a screen, they began noticing things.
Touching a pine cone, feeling moss, making something with twigs and stones, smelling different plants, looking at colors and textures.
That's who we are.
And that's why getting children outside is so important.
People like Richard Louv, who introduced the term nature-deficit disorder, recognized this years ago.
There are others whose work has helped bring attention to our relationship with nature: Peter Wohlleben, the German forester who writes about trees; Suzanne Simard, whose research explores how trees are connected; and Robin Wall Kimmerer.
Even Bear Grylls is writing about noticing, quieting down, and slowing down in nature.
I find that interesting.
Susan Morgan Bailey: It is interesting. It feels like nature is becoming trendy.
And I love that. I want it to be trendy, but I also don't want it to be a trend, because trends end.
I want this to be something that stays with us.
As you were talking, I was thinking about several things.
I recently returned from Portugal, where I spent eight days walking on the Camino. I got a wonderful dose of nature, and I wasn't using electronics while I was out walking.
I found myself thinking about the social determinants of health and the differences in how people live.
The amount of time people spend outdoors, walking from place to place, spending time in community, going on picnics.
It's hard not to see how those things might contribute to wellbeing when you're experiencing them.
And it makes me wonder whether we'll ever be bold enough to question the way we've organized work.
Could spending eight hours a day, five days a week—or more—indoors be contributing to some of the chronic health issues we experience?
Modern Life and Our Need for Nature
Susan Joachim: Absolutely.
There's a book called Indoor Epidemic that explores how much time Americans spend indoors and the potential consequences for health.
We spend so much of our time inside.
There are organizations working in lifestyle medicine that are beginning to recognize the importance of nature in health and wellbeing.
We're presenting on forest therapy at a conference in Hobart, Australia, where the theme is nature and lifestyle.
It's encouraging to see that recognition.
But we also need to think about the environments we're spending our time in.
Our homes are filled with manufactured materials, furnishings, carpets, and other products. We don't always question how those things are produced or what we're bringing into our indoor environments.
That's one reason I encourage people to have plants.
Especially when you're heading into winter and spending more time indoors.
When you wake up in the morning, instead of immediately reaching for your phone, look at your plants.
Notice their colors and textures. Take care of them.
Look at the sky before you look at a screen.
It's a simple way to begin your day with nature.
And if you're sitting at a desk all day, get up and move.
Our lives have evolved around spending time in front of computers, but we need to find ways to create balance.
I've also been thinking about younger generations and their relationship with work.
Sometimes people complain that younger workers aren't as productive or don't want to work as hard.
But I've started questioning that perspective.
Perhaps they're looking at their parents' generation—people who spent their lives working hard, sometimes at the expense of their health—and deciding they want something different.
They want a more balanced life.
And I think that's worth paying attention to.
When we look at human evolution, we've spent only a small fraction of our existence living in modern urban environments.
For most of our history, we evolved in nature.
We need nature.
But creating healthier ways of living also requires policy, leadership, and people willing to speak up about the importance of health and wellbeing.
Susan Morgan Bailey: I wholeheartedly agree.
And as I reflect on that, I wonder whether some people have lost the capacity—or perhaps the opportunity—to actively pursue their wellbeing.
Of course, it's complicated.
We've talked about the social determinants of health. When someone is struggling financially, for example, it can be difficult to prioritize health.
There are so many factors involved.
But I want to return to something you mentioned earlier: attention restoration theory.
We've been talking about children, technology, and our relationship with nature.
Can you explain what attention restoration theory is and how it connects to forest therapy?
The Science of Attention Restoration
Susan Joachim: Attention restoration theory was developed by Rachel and Stephen Kaplan, with important publications in 1989 and 1995.
They were interested in understanding how natural environments can support the restoration of attention.
The theory identifies four important characteristics.
The first is being away.
When you walked the Camino, Susan, you were away from your normal routine.
Being away from our everyday demands creates an opportunity for restoration.
The second is soft fascination.
This is the effortless attention that nature invites.
You might look at a flower or a pine cone and become fascinated by its patterns.
Think about the Fibonacci sequence and the patterns we find in nature.
You look at something and wonder, "How does that happen? How does nature do that?"
It captures your attention without requiring the same kind of mental effort as many of our daily tasks.
The third characteristic is extent.
This refers to the experience of being in an environment that feels immersive and coherent.
We love mountains, forests, and nature reserves partly because they draw us in.
But this becomes more challenging in urban environments.
Architects are increasingly using biophilic design principles to bring elements of nature into cities and buildings.
That's valuable, although I sometimes worry that we might begin to forget what a truly natural environment looks like.
A park bench and a couple of trees are better than nothing, but we also need access to more substantial natural spaces.
Countries such as Japan, Korea, and China have invested in forest therapy infrastructure.
In Korea, for example, forest therapy is supported through public policy and programs intended to serve people across the lifespan.
INFTA also works on designing forest therapy trails.
We've been involved with a trail on the campus of Deakin University in Australia, where research is underway.
The fourth characteristic is compatibility.
Is the environment a good fit for what you need?
If you're stressed and looking for a quiet place to sit and read, a park bench beside a busy highway may not provide the experience you're seeking.
The setting needs to support your purpose.
So those are the four characteristics: being away, soft fascination, extent, and compatibility.
Another important foundation is stress reduction theory, associated with Roger Ulrich.
His research examined how views of nature could influence recovery.
One well-known study looked at patients recovering from gallbladder surgery and found differences in recovery associated with whether their hospital rooms had views of trees or a brick wall.
These theories help us understand nature's potential to support restoration.
They point toward the replenishment of attention and emotional resources, which are important for psychological functioning.
And one of the things I find especially meaningful is the connection to resilience and adaptation.
Resilience is so important.
Susan, how did you feel when you came back from the Camino after spending that time away?
Bringing the Practice Home
Susan Morgan Bailey: It's interesting that being away is part of the theory.
When I came home, everything looked a little different.
Even walking around my own neighborhood, in places I'd walked many times before, I was noticing new things.
I found myself wondering, "Have I really never noticed that before?"
My ability to be present and pay attention seemed to have expanded.
I also notice something about my pace when I do these longer walks.
The pace I start with is often very different from the pace I'm walking by the last day.
I learn how to slow down.
And when I come home, that slower pace stays with me for a while.
But I need to practice it.
Susan Joachim: Exactly. Practice.
That's why we describe forest therapy as a practice.
When we conduct forest therapy sessions, we give participants a little forest therapy prescription with suggested daily, weekly, and monthly doses of nature connection.
We personalize it with their name and the date.
It's printed on a small sheet of paper so they can put it on their refrigerator or somewhere they'll see it regularly.
It's a reminder to go outside.
We also recommend a monthly guided forest therapy session.
We've been running guided sessions at the Royal Botanic Gardens in Melbourne for almost eight years, and we see people returning again and again.
I once asked a woman who lived just around the corner from the gardens why she continued paying for guided sessions.
She told me she couldn't stop her mind from racing.
But when she came to a guided session, the guides helped her slow down, and she left feeling like a different person.
That's where guided forest therapy can be valuable.
We live stressful lives. We have responsibilities and bills to pay. There's no quick fix.
Forest therapy is a practice.
And my mission is to see forest therapy guides available in communities, parks, counties, and states so more people can access that experience.
I remember visiting the redwood forests protected through the foresight of people like John Muir.
Standing beneath those trees felt like walking into a cathedral.
There's something difficult to put into words about that experience.
I've felt it in forests in Japan and Korea as well.
And it reminds me that we may plant trees whose shade we'll never sit beneath.
But we're planting them for the generations that follow.
That's part of what motivates me.
I also think forest therapy can be a meaningful path for people who have experience in leadership, human resources, or other professions and want to bring those skills into work that supports people and nature.
It's not an easy job.
A guide may spend hours preparing for a two-hour session.
You have to understand the environment, plan carefully, and be prepared for changing conditions.
But it's meaningful work.

What Happens During a Forest Therapy Session?
Susan Morgan Bailey: Before we wrap up, I'm curious if you could share a little about what happens during a two-hour forest therapy experience.
For people who aren't familiar with it, they might imagine it's something like talk therapy. Others might think it's a foraging experience.
I don't think it's either of those things. Can you give us a sense of what happens during those two hours?
Susan Joachim: Of course.
First, it's not a hike. You really need to be ready to slow down. Very, very slow.
It's about connecting with nature through your senses.
Guides invite you to experience your sense of smell, touch, and hearing. Tasting can also be part of it.
If you point to a tree and ask, "What's the Latin name of that tree?" the guide might say, "I'm not really sure, but what are you noticing about this tree?"
We're shifting away from the need to gather information and knowledge.
Even though forest therapy is informed by research, the experience itself is about getting into your body.
When you touch something with your fingertips, what does that feel like with your eyes open? What about with your eyes closed?
What are you hearing?
Are you listening to the sounds? Are you also listening to the quiet between the sounds?
How often do we smell the earth or sniff the air like an animal would?
There's no formal breathwork exercise. It's not exercise.
It's about tuning into who we are as beings created by nature.
The guide supports people in slowing down.
At the beginning, we start tuning into our senses. Then we go on a quiet, aware walk.
The emphasis is on quiet and aware.
You extend your awareness into the forest around you and above you.
How often do we look up?
The guide walks in front and models that slow pace.
Sometimes people say, "I'm slowing down, but now what do I do?"
So the guide demonstrates.
And you can sense how people gradually begin to slow down.
Then we might invite people to spend time with a tree.
We don't say, "Go hug a tree."
Instead, we invite them to follow their curiosity.
Which tree draws your attention? Where does your intuition invite you to spend time?
For some people, that experience brings back memories of childhood, climbing trees or spending quiet time in a treehouse.
We also offer a range of sensory and creative activities, but they're place-based.
We don't randomly tell people to do something.
The guide spends hours before the walk scouting the trail and observing what's happening in nature at that particular time.
The guide also needs to be aware of the people who have come together.
It might be one person, two people, or twenty.
You have to read the group.
What invitation would be appropriate right now? How much time and space should we give people?
If people are enjoying an activity and it takes twenty minutes rather than the ten you expected, you might drop the next activity.
You allow people to spend time with what they're experiencing.
That's the beauty of it.
Have you been on a guided forest therapy walk, Susan?
Different Approaches to Forest Therapy
Susan Morgan Bailey: I'm actually in training right now through the Association of Nature and Forest Therapy, ANFT.
I'm still early in the training.
Susan Joachim: I did my original training with Amos Clifford, who founded ANFT.
I spent some wonderful time with him in New Zealand.
And I love his quote: "The forest is the therapist."
I'll never forget that.
I completed my training with him and then moved toward a different approach to forest therapy.
We wanted to bring more research and scientific foundations into the practice.
I think ANFT has also introduced more of that into its training, which is wonderful.
And Susan, I think you'll love your training and what happens during your sessions.
Maybe I'll come and do a session with you when I'm back in America.
Susan Morgan Bailey: That would be fun! Or maybe I'll come and do one with you.
Susan Joachim: Please do.
I'd love to show you how the forests in Australia are both different from and similar to the forests you know.
I could introduce you to the scents of the Australian bush, including the phytoncides.
There's a particular smell to the Australian bush.
Susan Morgan Bailey: I love that.
I have an undergraduate degree in science, and I was a science teacher for a few years before moving into organizational and individual health and wellbeing.
It all connects.
As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking I'm probably going to continue collecting more education because I love learning.
It's interesting to hear about your approach. I can hear the similarities between the different forest therapy traditions, and I can also hear the complementary focus you've added.
Thank you for sharing that.
I'm excited to share this conversation with people who are curious about forest therapy.
It's still a growing field here, and there are different training organizations and approaches.
The Future of Forest Therapy
Susan Morgan Bailey: Before we move into our closing, I want to ask one more question.
There's a lot happening in this space.
We've talked about the growing attention being given to nature. I'm even seeing more clothing with nature patterns on it. Nature is becoming cool.
I'm curious: What gives you hope about where the field of nature therapy, or nature as therapy, is headed?
Susan Joachim: It's definitely moving forward because there are more guides offering forest therapy walks.
But I have some concerns about the growth of short, AI-generated courses that promise people they can become forest therapy guides over a weekend.
I understand that people make decisions based on cost.
And a short course might be enough to spark someone's curiosity.
But if we want forest therapy to be recognized as a professional public health practice, we need proper training and standards.
That's where I'd like to see government funding.
I want people to have access to guided forest therapy without worrying about the financial commitment.
I also want to see more collaboration between organizations.
Competition can be good, but it should be healthy competition.
Australia, America, and Europe all have different bioregions, different forests, and different cultural contexts.
We need to be aware of where we're working and the environments we're entering.
We should have practices that are healthy for people and healthy for the planet.
For example, I'm not going to fly to America to train two people if part of that training can be done online.
There are opportunities for guides trained through different organizations to learn from one another.
If there's one message I'd like to share, it's this: Let's build a community of practice.
A global community of forest therapy guides, without feeling that one organization or approach is better than another.
We need to be professional in our approach so that people who attend a forest therapy session or undertake guide training can trust the quality of what they're receiving.
That also helps governments recognize forest therapy practitioners as professionals.
I've been thinking about conferences, too.
We have so many conferences where people travel around the world to present papers.
And I sometimes wonder, do we really need to keep doing that?
We've been talking about forest therapy for decades.
Why not create a conference for forest therapy guides, organized by forest therapy guides?
We could bring guides together from around the world to share what we've learned, our joys, and our challenges.
We could create a shared database of activities and invitations.
Guides often ask, "What activities should I offer?"
And I tell them they need to go outside, spend time on Country, and understand their own environment.
An activity that works in one forest may not work in another.
You need to consider your bioregion and the people you're guiding.
Are you working with children? University students? Older adults? A mixed group?
But wouldn't it be wonderful to have a global platform where guides could share their experiences and ideas?
Susan, let's make this happen!
Community, Connection, and Caring for Nature
Susan Morgan Bailey: I love it.
The Susans will work together from opposite sides of the globe!
Part of the reason this resonates with me is that we're talking about nature, and we are nature.
We survive and thrive in community.
As natural creatures, we're meant to live interconnected lives.
I've been spending a lot of time thinking about what we need from a community perspective to build energy around connection to nature.
So yes, let's do it.
Susan Joachim: Absolutely.
It's timely.
We're seeing more solastalgia, or climate grief.
And it's important to acknowledge that grief.
We can't bottle it up.
When we turn on the news, how often do we hear about nature in the headlines?
I worry about that.
We need more people speaking up for nature, including people with large public platforms.
Because I feel that grief myself.
Earlier, when I became emotional talking about my childhood, that was part of what I was processing.
Nature helps me maintain my balance.
But we need to face our grief, too.
As I said at the beginning, we only protect what we love.
There's a quote I wrote down that I'd love to share.
It was from a Senegalese forestry engineer, Baba Dioum, in 1968.
He said:
"In the end, we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we are taught."
That brings me back to children.
What are we teaching them?
Robert Macfarlane wrote The Lost Words, a book about the disappearance of nature-related words from children's language and everyday vocabulary.
Words for birds, trees, plants, and seasons.
Even here in Australia, many people don't know that there are six traditional seasons in this part of Victoria.
Sometimes people look at me and say, "Really? I never learned that in school."
Perhaps they were taught about it briefly, but it wasn't something they carried into their everyday lives.
I celebrate these seasons and what they teach us about the natural world.
I think it's time for us to return to being human again.
There are billions of us on this planet, and we can make a difference.
This is the call of the forest.
I spent almost twenty years working with USAID in Sri Lanka, and I brought that professional experience into forest therapy.
I believe structure, discipline, and thoughtfulness are important.
They help us develop the practice responsibly and make a meaningful contribution.
Natural Favorites
Susan Morgan Bailey: This has been so much fun.
I'm a little sad that we've reached the end because I could keep talking with you.
But we have reached a natural closing point.
I always like to finish with something fun that helps listeners get to know the person I'm talking with in a different way.
I call it Natural Favorites.
There are no right or wrong answers, just a few easy questions related to nature.
Can I ask you a few?
Susan Joachim: Of course!
Susan Morgan Bailey: Your favorite tree or plant?
Susan Joachim: The lemon-scented gum tree.
Susan Morgan Bailey: Does it really smell like lemon?
Susan Joachim: Yes! It smells like lemon.
I won't give away all my trade secrets, but it's part of our guided forest therapy experiences.
It's one of the first things that captures people's attention.
Susan Morgan Bailey: Here in the States, we have the sassafras tree, which has a wonderful smell too, if you know how to bring it out.
Susan Joachim: Yes!
With any aromatic leaf, you can gently rub it between your fingers. The warmth helps release the natural oils.
We do something similar in the herb garden at the botanic gardens.
I take people on what I call a sniffari.
Susan Morgan Bailey: A sniffari! I like that.
All right, your favorite sound in nature?
Susan Joachim: The sound of the gang-gang cockatoo.
I'll leave it at that.
Let your listeners go online and hear it for themselves. Then try to describe it to someone else.
What does a gang-gang cockatoo sound like?
Susan Morgan Bailey: I love it.
Last question: Your favorite time of day to be outside?
Susan Joachim: Dusk.
Susan Morgan Bailey: Why dusk?
Susan Joachim: Because the birds are coming back to roost, and I hear them chattering.
I wonder what they're talking about.
Sometimes I think that's where Twitter got its inspiration!
The birds are all gossiping about what happened during the day.
Who's sleeping with whom? Where are the best worms?
Sometimes they're trying to talk over each other.
I think, "This is where the juicy stuff is happening!"
Susan Morgan Bailey: I love that!
Now I'm going to think about bird gossip every time I'm outside at dusk.
Thank you so much for spending time with me today.
I'll include links in the show notes, but where would you like listeners to connect with you?
Susan Joachim: They can start with our website, infta.net.
We're also on Instagram and Facebook.
Susan Morgan Bailey: Wonderful.
Thank you so much for your time. This was a lot of fun.
Susan Joachim: Thank you for having me, Susan. It's been a pleasure.

Susan Bailey