Walk with Pete Bombaci: Social Support Is Life Support

Sep 15

Episode Summary: Human connection isn't simply something that makes life more enjoyable—it is foundational to our wellbeing. Susan talks with GenWell founder Pete Bombaci about social health, why modern life has made connection increasingly difficult, and how small, intentional acts can help us build a more connected world.

Through the lens of nature, they also explore a deeper question: if living systems depend on relationship and interdependence, what might that remind us about ourselves?

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Show Notes

What if human connection isn't simply good for us, but essential to how we're designed to live?

Pete Bombaci is the founder of GenWell, a social health organization working to build a more connected world by helping people understand the importance of face-to-face human connection—and practice it.

Pete and Susan explore why our relationships are foundational to mental and physical wellbeing and some of the ways modern life has quietly made connection more difficult. Bigger homes, taller fences, remote work, digital technology, and the convenience of having nearly anything delivered to our doors may make life easier while reducing the everyday interactions that once brought us into contact with one another.

But this isn't simply a conversation about loneliness. It's an exploration of what we can do.

Talk to a stranger. Reach out to an old friend. Create an opportunity to gather. Acknowledge someone you pass on a walk. Put down the phone. Go first.

Through the lens of Rooted, the conversation also turns toward nature. Healthy ecosystems depend on relationship and interdependence. If humans are nature, perhaps our need for one another isn't a weakness or a failure of independence. Perhaps it is simply part of being human.

Key Themes

Social connection as a foundation of wellbeing
The difference between digital contact and face-to-face connection
How modern life can unintentionally create isolation
Moving from individual responsibility toward community and shared support
Small acts of connection and the courage to "go first"
Third spaces and creating opportunities for people to gather
Connection and belonging in workplaces
Interdependence in nature and human life

Key Takeaways

Social connection is a foundational part of our health and wellbeing—not simply something that's nice to have.
Small interactions matter. A smile, a wave, or a conversation with a stranger can positively affect both people.
Modern life has made isolation increasingly easy, making intentional connection more important.
Creating opportunities for connection can help remove the barriers that keep people from reaching out.

Sometimes building a more connected world begins simply by being willing to go first.

"We need more people who are willing to go first because that's how we start changing the world."

Connect with Pete

Pete Bombaci is the founder of GenWell, a Canadian social health organization focused on educating, empowering, and catalyzing people around the importance of face-to-face social connection.

Website: GenWell.ca

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petebombaci/

Resources Mentioned

GenWell
GenWell Weekend
Talk to a Stranger Week
Digital Detox Day
Research by Dr. Gillian Sandstrom on talking to strangers and social connection
Research by Dr. Nicholas Epley on human connection and conversations with strangers
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
The Correspondent by Virginia Evans
Theo of Golden by Allen Levi

Reflection Prompt

Where in your life could you create the conditions for more connection—and what might happen if you were willing to go first?

Connect with ROOTED

Continue exploring nature, wellbeing, belonging, and what it means to be human with Susan Morgan Bailey and ROOTED: A Podcast About Nature & Wellbeing.

Website: https://www.rootedsoulliving.com/rooted-podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanmbailey/

Prefer to read? The full transcript is below.

Being Human
Susan:
Well, hello, Pete. Welcome to the podcast.
Pete:
Hi, Susan. Great to be here. Looking forward to this conversation.
Susan:
Me too. And I’m excited to connect any day with someone who wears a T-shirt that says, “Be Human,” because we are all human. Sometimes we might forget that, but it’s a great place to start for today.
Pete:
Yeah. We made this T-shirt about a year ago. We have a whole selection of T-shirts that try to direct us toward habits and rituals of human connection that make us all real and vulnerable and, you know, human.
Somebody one day just said in a conversation, “We should all just be more human.” And I thought to myself, that’s actually a really powerful thought.
Susan:
I love it. It’s a good reminder because it can get really confusing in this day and age of artificial intelligence and living in a very built world, disconnected from nature and sometimes human nature. It can be a little confusing.
Pete:
Yeah. I don’t know if I’d like to be a young person growing up in the world today with all the additional challenges they have.
But this is where I think conversations like this are important. Oftentimes, I think over the last 40 or 50 years, we’ve burdened the individual who was struggling with the solution. If you’re suffering, we need to teach you to go for a run, or do gratitude or mindfulness, or you need to do X, Y, and Z.
Actually, maybe part of the solution is recognizing that the rest of us can be part of the solution for those who are struggling—and that community and connection are really the foundation of helping people through all the challenges.
Life comes with challenges. Nobody’s getting out of here without some challenges along the journey. When we have people in our lives and we can count on them to help us be more resilient, find solutions, and cope through the immediate challenges, I think we understand, okay, I need to have some people around me.
That’s what we’ve really been focused on.
Social Support Is Life Support
Susan:
For years, I’ve used a phrase in my work with organizations—helping them design strategies to take care of their people—and with individuals, helping them find their way to thriving.
My catchphrase is, “Social support is life support.”
And that is the purpose of your organization. You founded GenWell. Can you tell us a little bit about the organization?
Why GenWell Exists
Pete:
Yeah. Back in 2016, I launched this movement. We call it Canada’s Human Connection Movement. We work globally, but when we were looking for partners and sponsors, everybody wanted to know that we were focused on a single area. We do a lot of work down in the United States as well.
Our mission is to make the world a happier and healthier place by educating, empowering, and catalyzing people around the importance of face-to-face social connection as a proactive step we can all take for our health, our happiness, our longevity, and for the betterment of society.
Ultimately, in my lifetime—50-plus years—I’ve been told that I should exercise, eat well, sleep, drink water, don’t drink too much, and don’t smoke. But nobody ever educated me on the importance of my social connections and my social health, which lead to better mental, physical, and societal wellbeing.
We’ve been working for 10 years to educate, empower, and catalyze, recognizing that we’re not going to change things overnight.
For 50 years, we told people not to talk to strangers. Most of us don’t know our next-door neighbor’s name. So we have a long way to go to help people recognize that social connections are available all around us.
If we just take a little more time to be conscious and intentional about those social connections, we might not only change our lives, but we might change the lives of those we connect with each and every day.
Face-to-Face Connection
Susan:
This is going to be an interesting episode because it’s already hitting me. I’m thinking, yes, please, more—and maybe even getting a little emotional because it’s fascinating and sad how pulled apart we’ve become, how distanced we’ve become.
I was listening to a podcast today, a wonderful short-burst podcast I listen to, and he was talking about the difference between what we think are relationships and connections on social media—the liking and commenting and all of that—versus what you’re talking about, which is sitting in a room, in actual physical space with someone. Or even doing what we’re doing: one-on-one, looking at each other, taking each other in, in real time.
I’m going deep fast, but when I say all that, I’m curious what comes up for you.
Pete:
Susan, this is our bailiwick. This is our sweet spot.
Research that came out after the end of the global pandemic, out of Montreal here in Canada, suggests that a face-to-face interaction has nine times the brain activity of one of these digital connections.
Now, these are an incredible supplement. You and I aren’t in the same community, so we can do this interview while we’re in different places. Maybe people are struggling with a little social anxiety, or mobility is a challenge. There are lots of different reasons why digital technology is an incredible supplement to human interactions.
But what we need people to understand is that there should be an end goal here. This supplement is only to get us to the human interactions that make us happier and healthier.
Especially when we think of Zoom burnout during the global pandemic—and many of us who continue to work either hybrid or remote—we often wonder why we don’t feel so good at the end of a day working at the end of our kitchen table or in our basement, which I do almost every day.
I think it’s really about making people conscious that there are all these different levels of human connection, but we need to recognize that face-to-face human interaction should be the ultimate goal.
When we spend time with other people, it has incredible benefits to our health and wellbeing, reduces our risk of almost every illness in the book, and also has a positive impact on our society and our communities.
Susan:
Yes. Human, face-to-face, in person.
One thing that comes up for me when you say that is thinking about some of the humans who missed prime years for skill development in that space—or just humans generally who got out of practice.
My heart hurts a little bit for those folks because there’s anxiety. They’re thinking, I don’t know how to do it.
They have anxiety around being in person, probably compounded by social media and this sense of, I’ve got to show up a certain way to be received a certain way.
Are you doing anything to help people who are struggling with that? Or talk more about what you’re seeing in that space.
Pete:
Yeah. For probably about five years, we’ve been delivering social health workshops in workplaces, classrooms, communities, seniors organizations, and municipalities where we help people understand the why.
If you’re a Simon Sinek fan, you recognize that if we don’t understand why we need to build these healthy connections, we’ll continue to think of them as soft skills, because that’s what we told people they were for 50 years.
We told people not to talk to strangers for 50 years, yet the research tells us that those who talk to strangers just once a week are up to three times happier.
When we talk to strangers, it increases optimism, trust, sense of safety, inclusion, belonging, and community. Just about every measure I think we are looking for as human beings comes when we open ourselves to actually talking to people who don’t look like us, don’t sound like us, and aren’t us.
Every friend you have today was once a stranger. And a stranger today could be a friend tomorrow. But if you never take that opportunity to have that connection, then you’ll continue to be as disconnected as you might be today, when that opportunity could be anywhere around you.
Those social health workshops are critical. In 2025, we delivered them to over 10,000 Canadians, and 98 percent of the people who took them said they learned either a little or a lot about the power of human connection. Sixty-eight percent said they learned a lot.
We have to recognize that people don’t understand this information.
Thirty percent said they learned a little, and that’s across workplaces, communities, classrooms, and seniors organizations. We do a lot of work in public health, too. Ninety-eight percent of people are saying they’re learning things we should think we would have educated people on for the last 50 years, but we just don’t know it.
What we see from the results is that 57 percent of people say they’re going to take this information and use it in their workplaces—to be more proactive in building connection. Sixty-seven percent say they’re going to take it and be more proactive about building connection in their personal lives.
When we empower people with the information, give them practical experience in how to connect, and then put them into a group where we all recognize this together, it makes a difference.
We do a lot of work in workplaces. When I educate 50 people in a room at the same time, we are all empowered to help each other.
What I think we’ve often done for the last few decades is really empower individuals. It’s always been about individual learning.
We do all of our work in groups—classrooms, communities, workplaces—because we believe the only way to move this forward is to do this in a group setting.

The Myth of Independence
Susan:
It is something to behold when you take a step back and look at how oriented toward independence we are as a species.
A variety of influences have led us to believe that we are independent, or that independence is the way, or that we are alone. You can look at that story so many ways.
Your work is overcoming an unsaid perspective that people may not even know they hold. I see you smiling. When you hear me say that, what comes up for you?
Pete:
As you know well, Susan, we are a social species. So when you say we’ve been individually oriented as a species, I would say the system, media, commercialism, capitalism to an extent—all of it—and then the advent of social media.
Even the idea of working remotely. We are unconscious of all the things we’ve been driven toward that have isolated us.
I do a lot of speaking, and when I talk to an audience I say, “Look, what did we do for the last 50 years?”
We built bigger houses for smaller families. We put up taller fences in our backyards. Back decks instead of front porches. We built in-home movie theaters and automatic garage doors.
And now that we have the phone and can order up anything to our front door, guess what, Susan? I never need to leave my home.
We thought we were building our castle. We thought that was a good thing.
Until now, when we’re starting to understand that when we are lonely and isolated—and the pandemic was the wake-up call—it doesn’t feel so good.
Pre-pandemic, nobody would engage in this conversation at all. Then the pandemic ripped us apart from each other for two years, and people started to feel like, Wow, that doesn’t feel so good when I don’t see my friends or my family, or I don’t get the chance to talk to the barista or all the other people who are part of our daily lives.
Even today, we’re not back to the normal habits and routines we used to have.
I think this is the wake-up call: whatever you used to do, think about it. And then be more conscious of proactively building those healthy connections into your life.
Susan:
Yeah. The mini castles. I’m wondering how many people actually put a real moat around their house!
We have become really good at isolating ourselves.
I’m curious—and I bet you have some research, which you’ve hit upon a little bit—but I want to double-click on why human connection and our social networks are so foundational to our health and wellbeing.
Is it really that important?
Why Social Health Matters
Pete:
Yeah. And trust me, that is what most people think when we bring them into a social health workshop: Really? Is social connection really that important?
What the research shows, if we think about young people below the age of 25, is that it impacts long-term health outcomes and brain development. It reduces your likelihood of academic success.
We are setting people up for a lifetime of struggle when we don’t help them learn how to build healthy connections and integrate and interact with each other in the course of their lives and their days.
As we get older, when we have chronic reports of loneliness in our lives, it increases our risk for heart disease, type 2 diabetes, onset dementia, addiction, obesity, and cancer.
When we think about it from a societal level, it increases your risk for political polarization, incivility, even homelessness and food insecurity.
When we have healthy connections in our lives, we’re less likely to end up in those terrible situations.
When you think about addiction, think about going through AA and having three sponsors as part of the plan. That’s why we need people in our lives.
Hopefully before we get to the crisis.
That’s our aspiration at GenWell. Let’s empower 41 million people in Canada and 350 million people in the United States to understand this information so we don’t have to wait until we’re in a crisis, where a program connects us with people.
Let’s do it because we understand it and proactively reach out to make those connections that make us happier and healthier.
Susan:
Yes. Proactive. I love it.
This podcast has a nature undercurrent, where we often look at the connection between nature and wellbeing. And as we talk about this, I can’t help but think about the ecosystem concept.
We know a thriving ecosystem—let’s take a forest, for example—is interdependent. Every tree and organism in that forest depends on the health and wellbeing of the other trees and organisms in that ecosystem.
It is interrelational. Nothing thrives in isolation.
And since we’re nature, since humans are actually natural creatures, the same applies to us.
When you hear me use that ecosystem concept, what comes up for you?
Human Connection and the Living World
Pete:
What comes up for me is that what we do at GenWell is not rocket science, and it’s not new.
Our Indigenous forefathers and mothers have been teaching us this information for 10,000 years or longer—recognizing that we are all from Earth, we are all in this together. We need each other. We need the trees. We need the animals. We need everything in nature.
And yet, for me, there’s a little bit of this: I’m a big nature fan. I’m up north in cottage country in Canada right now, looking out at a lake as I’m having this conversation with you. I will do anything to stand up for trees and water and nature.
But if I can’t get people to talk to the stranger who stands beside them—if I can’t get you to care for a human being who you can actually interact with and have a conversation with—how do we get people to think about a tree?
We’ve been trying to push the environmental movement since probably the mid-1970s, and yet there are obviously still lots of challenges.
There’s a part of me that wonders: what if we actually found the ability to build a connection with somebody we didn’t know, like a stranger?
We might start to realize, My God, I thought you didn’t like me. I thought you thought this way or that way. But we’re not like that.
Once we start building these little micro-connections with people and recognizing that we’re not all bad—and there are very few people out there who actually want to destroy the Earth—maybe something changes.
I just don’t believe the average person really wants to do harm, especially if you have kids and you’re thinking about what we’re leaving behind.
In the Indigenous world, it’s seven generations. How many of us are thinking seven days ahead versus seven generations ahead?
I think what we do at GenWell around human interaction is critically tied to the environmental movement, to nature, and to connecting in nature.
Because at the end of the day, if we can’t care for the individuals who are in our vicinity and our proximity, how do we get people to think about a tree?
You and I know how valuable that tree is. But young people today may not even have the knowledge to recognize photosynthesis and sunlight and air, and that we need this to survive.
I think we need all these messages, but we need to layer it all in.
We’re doing work with the Trans Canada Trail. On our GenWell Weekend, we’re going for a walk to go into nature and actually value time connected.
There’s a Harvard study that shows everything we do, when we do it with other people, is more joyful.
Rather than just say, “Go into nature,” why don’t we encourage people to grab a friend and go into nature?
Maybe that conversation you have with a friend—who may be even more passionate about the environment—leads to a few aha moments. You think, My God, I should think about the environment a little more often, because you’ve just learned something that makes you realize we have some rough roads ahead if we don’t start doing something now.
Connection First, Activity Second
Susan:
Everything you do with someone else is more joyful. Was that what it was?
Pete:
Yeah. The study looked at, I think, about 12 different things. Being in nature might have been one of them. It’s on my LinkedIn—I just posted it again recently.
It measured whether you did something by yourself, with friends, or with family. From reading to social media to playing games to going out or going for a hike, every one of them showed there is more joy when we do things with other people.
I think that’s important because, over my lifetime, I was so focused on being told to go do the activity. The activity was the most important thing.
What if we actually backed up and said the most important thing is that you go find a friend—and then figure out what the two of you want to do?
Whether that’s going into nature, playing basketball, going for a walk, reading a book together—whatever you want to do.
If we actually focused on the connection first and the activity second, I think we would have been much further ahead.
Susan:
Yeah. And I’m thinking about the individual—or two individuals—who say, Yep, I’m game. Let’s go hang out.
But maybe they don’t know how to do it without being distracted by something.
There are so many layers to this.
I’m also thinking about people who are out of touch with themselves. Being with someone else is hard because they don’t realize they’re out of touch with themselves, so they’re not fully present when they’re with someone else.
And then there’s the individual who says, Yes, I want to hang out with people, but I don’t even know that I know how to do it. They’re afraid.
So pick one. Which one would you like to talk about?
Getting Past the Fear of Connection
Pete:
When I think about our behavior change and our social framework, at the end of the day, we don’t know.
One of the things that happens when we’re socially anxious—Dr. Steve Joordens, one of our scientific advisors who has helped guide us in the work we do in our programs and campaigns, has always said to me, “Pete, the biggest barrier for most people is the fear of evaluation.”
The reason I’m afraid to talk to you is that I’m inside my head thinking you don’t want to talk to me.
When, in actual fact, we as human beings, in most cases, are open to having a connection.
Dr. Nick Epley’s work at Chicago Booth says that we 100 percent of the time underestimate the positive impact of talking to a stranger.
I think when we help people understand the facts and recognize that the fear we have is often unfounded, it helps.
If you’re in line at a coffee shop, at the library, at the grocery store, or wherever you might be, and you say hello to somebody or smile at somebody, you feel a little better and they feel a little better.
Honestly, almost all the time, they’d feel pretty good that you did it.
That knowledge is what we share in our social health workshops. Then we take people through a few practices and give them the confidence that they’re not alone in these thoughts.
Here are the habits and actions you can take—from talking to a stranger to sending a note.
One of the great pieces of research by Dr. Gillian Sandstrom out of the UK, which she did with somebody in Vancouver, is that one of the greatest ways to reconnect with an old friend is sending a note on their birthday.
If you haven’t talked to an old friend, going back and connecting with somebody you haven’t seen in a long time can be very challenging. I feel that challenge as well.
But everybody has a birthday. Everybody knows what it’s like to get a note from somebody.
Maybe you say, “Hey, happy birthday. Love to connect with you.”
If they don’t get back to you, totally fine. But it’s a simple outreach.
“Hey, Susan, happy birthday. Love to see you sometime.”
And if Susan comes back to you, then the door’s open.
We need to find those simple interactions that help people build those initial connections, because that initial outreach is often the first thing that makes everything else happen.

Creating Space for Connection
Susan:
Yeah. And space for it, right?
There’s the mix of, I need to personally own this and take action, but there’s also the opportunity for incidental contact.
Today I was reminded of third places. It’s interesting—I think we have fewer third places, but then I feel like there’s this turn toward more interest in creating them.
For those who don’t know what a third place is, I’m going to let you explain it because you probably do a better job than me.
But I was thinking about that today. I wonder what the data really says about it, and whether my inkling that there’s something happening—more interest in creating them—is real.
Pete:
I’ll say two things.
One of the fears I have when I hear people talk about third spaces is that some people might use it as a barrier to connection: Well, there are no third spaces around me, so I can’t build connection.
Third spaces are a wonderful thing. For the benefit of the audience, that could be a library, a coffee shop, a community center—any place where people might gather.
But I think we have to recognize that you can talk to a stranger on the street. You can talk to your neighbor in the hallway, on your porch, or on the street. You can talk at the office to a colleague.
There are many ways we can build connection with people without needing a space.
But third spaces are also wonderful because ultimately they bring people together, whether it’s a class or some type of course or concept that brings people together under a shared interest. That’s another great way to build connection.
What I sense I see out there, Susan, is that people are starting to recognize that this goddamn phone—whether it’s AI or social media or whatever is creating that addiction that’s stealing time away from human interaction—is actually leading to us feeling lonely, isolated, disconnected, anxious, depressed, and the list goes on.
If we become more conscious and make a more proactive effort to get out and be connected, that will be part of the solution to building a more connected world.
Getting Out of the Phone and Into Real Life
Susan:
Yeah. And reducing loneliness, right?
With the phone and social media, it can feel like, I’ve got a phone full of contacts. I’ve got a bunch of connections and followers. I got 14 likes on my most recent post. They see me. They see me.
And the reality is, there is nothing like being in the room with people.
It’s different.
Getting out of the phone and getting into real life.
Pete:
Yeah.
Dr. Steve Joordens and Nick Epley have both educated me about synchronous and asynchronous communication.
This is synchronous. We’re responding to each other. We know that a digital interaction doesn’t have the same brain activity, but I think it’s really about helping people be conscious of what happens with asynchronous communication.
When I text you—and we’re all guilty of this—you text me and then I send you a text three days later and go, “Hey, Susan, sorry about that. I was busy.”
Or how often have we looked at a text and thought, I just can’t do that now. I’m exhausted. I don’t want to deal with that.
But when I’m sitting with you face-to-face, like we’re doing right now, I’m engaged in a conversation. I can see you smile or frown. I can see you lean in or lean out. I can see all those nonverbal cues.
They’re not as powerful as they are in person, but they’re still here.
When we are doing asynchronous communication, it’s different.
Think about colleagues. I’m working on a document, I send it to you in Google Drive, and you send it back. Yes, it’s collaboration.
But if we were sitting in a room together going, “Susan, I’ve got this idea. Here’s what I think we should do. What do you think? Hey, how do we…?”
And we just keep bantering back and forth—that’s the type of collaboration that gets people motivated and inspired.
That’s what I think we’re losing in the workplace, whether it’s collaboration or innovation—all those things that come when we’re having those meaty conversations.
Then we walk out of the meeting room and go have a coffee, and I say, “Susan, what did you think about that meeting? That wasn’t what I was expecting.” Or, “That was amazing. We should do…”
I think we’re missing all those juicy parts of life and work that come when we spend time face-to-face.
The Joy of Being With People
Susan:
Yeah.
I’ve been fortunate in the last couple of weeks to have a number of breakfasts and lunches with humans for work purposes. We’ve gone everywhere in our conversations—from personal to professional to global.
Every interaction, I left feeling changed and invigorated and seen or understood. No two were the same.
And in each of them, I wanted more.
I’m like, Gee, how could I make my job be eating meals with people for a living?
I already had an appreciation for it, and our conversation is compounding that appreciation.
Pete:
The only word I can use, Susan, is consciousness.
I think we’ve used the word consciousness over the last couple of decades, but I’m not sure exactly what context it was used in.
When we understand how important social connection is for our health, our happiness, longevity, and for the betterment of society—and I connect all those dots; that’s what we do in our social health workshops—there’s nobody who walks out of the room without going, Hmm. That’s interesting. I’d never thought about that before.
And we use simple language.
I’m not a researcher. I’m not a scientist. I’m not a social worker.
I spent 20 years in the beverage alcohol industry, and then I ran a campaign called Movember, the men’s mustache charity for men’s mental health and health.
Over that career, I spent a lot of time sitting with people in a bar or restaurant and talking to them. I really came to understand people.
Everything we do at GenWell is focused on being human and really speaking to people—not through a theoretical, scientific, or academic lens, but just saying, “Hey, you should talk to each other.”
Whether it’s a stranger, your neighbor, or your classmate, here are all the benefits you get. Here’s how you can do it. Here are the ways you’re missing it.
Then we run six national campaigns focused on key populations—young people and older people—and key times of the year. People struggle during seasonal transitions.
We also run a campaign called Talk to a Stranger Week. God forbid we should encourage people to talk to strangers!
And on the first day of every month, we do Digital Detox Day.
That’s really just a constant reminder. I’m not going to change somebody’s habits if I put you through a one-hour or three-hour course in one day.
But if I give you a tip every month—reduce your subscriptions, take something off the main screen on your phone, unsubscribe from newsletters—those little things can help.
Because it’s not just social media.
I used to get 50 or 60 newsletters every week. Now I’m down to fewer than 10. It’s not that I don’t want those subscriptions, but I never found time to read them anyway.
Rather than getting 60 more emails a week, why not unsubscribe? When the opportunity comes and you have time to read something, go and seek it out.
There are lots of little things we can all be doing.
Old-Fashioned Ways of Connecting
Susan:
I love those.
As we’re talking, I’m thinking about two fiction books I’ve read in the last six months—or I’m almost done with one of them—that are about this in interesting ways. I’m thinking, Maybe this is a trend.
One of them is The Correspondent, which was a mainstream bestselling book. It’s about a woman who writes letters.
Old-fashioned letters.
She’s retired, and she sits down and writes letters about her day: Here’s where I’m at. Here are the challenges I’m having. Here are the struggles I’m having.
She writes them to individuals in her life who then write back. This is in modern times—they could be calling, they could be emailing, and a couple of them are emails—but she’s actually handwriting letters, which is a lost art for many.
Reading that book inspired me. I want to write more letters.
I don’t want to wait until birthdays, because I’m terrible at remembering birthdays. But I’m pushing myself to think that when I feel inspired to tell someone I care about them, or I’m grateful for them or something they did, I’m writing because of that book.
The other one is Theo of Golden. In that book, the character is very focused on connecting human-to-human on a park bench and reflecting back to the individual what he sees in them.
He builds an extraordinary community in a small town through face-to-face conversation and connection.
As we’re talking, I’m thinking, These are both hits.
I hope others are as inspired as I am to connect in good old-fashioned ways.
Pete:
It’s funny. Think about the TV shows we loved for the longest time: Seinfeld, Friends, Cheers.
When you think about those books, why is it that the shows that were most popular were about having beautiful relationships in our lives? Being seen, valued, and heard?
I think that’s the insight.
My God, we’ve been craving this for decades.
There are lots of people doing research, and there are more and more books being written about this. But what we’ve tried to do at GenWell—and because of my background as a beer salesman—is ultimately do something that helps you and me and the next person.
Our information and our campaigns are really there just to say, “Hey, you can do it.”
You don’t need to wait until you’re sick and go to a program or a hospital and suddenly they’re going to solve all your problems.
You can do it.
You can talk to strangers. You can do all these things that we could be encouraging people to do.
Your healthcare system is different than how it’s funded up here, but at the end of the day, I don’t think anybody wants to use the system.
It’s great that it’s there, but let’s help people stay healthy and happy versus waiting until they’re sick before we try to help them.
Susan:
Hear, hear. I 100 percent agree on that.

Creating Connection at Work
Susan:
Thinking about TV shows, I was also thinking about Friends and The Office. What an office! So many things happening there.
With that office in mind, and the fact that you’re focused on workplace connection, I’m curious to hear what some of the concepts are that you teach in your workshops—and maybe a couple of micro things people can try even without the workshop, although I’m sure the workshop gives them lots more skills and practice.
Pete:
Yeah, totally. And again, this isn’t rocket science.
It’s making sure that people understand why. Here are all the benefits: reduced anxiety and depression, reduced risk of these 25 illnesses, the single greatest contributor to happiness, increased empathy, compassion and resilience, a stronger immune system, greater self-confidence.
When you list the benefits of building connections into their lives, now you’ve got people sitting on the edge of their chairs going, Okay, okay. I get it now. Now tell me how.
Then we go through: there are strangers, your neighbors, classmates, colleagues, old friends, and what we call casual collisions—people you run into on the street.
But if you never leave your house, if you’re always working in your basement, those spontaneous connections don’t happen.
Again, it’s all part of that consciousness.
When we think about the workplace, a big part of it is understanding that we’re all living in a very busy, crazy world right now.
If I said to you, “Susan, why don’t we go for coffee?” you and I would probably pull out our calendars, and three weeks from Sunday, between 2:00 and 2:30, maybe we could find 30 minutes.
But I’ve got to drive an hour to see you. So that’s an hour to you, 30 minutes for coffee, an hour back to my home to start working again. And I go, “Susan, I’m so sorry. I just can’t do it.”
But what if we actually put things into the calendar in the workplace?
We say, “Hey, guys, every week we’re going to host a coffee chat Friday morning at 8:30. One of the senior executives is going to be here, and the topic is nothing other than being human. Come and have a chat.”
One of the things we certainly encourage every workplace to do is the social health workshop so people understand the why. The next step is always: survey your people.
If we’re going to get connected, Susan, what would you like to do?
Some people like to bowl. Some people like to go for a hike. Some people want to have coffee. Some people might like to go to a game. Some people might go to a botanical garden.
I don’t care.
Our message at GenWell is always this: I don’t actually care what you do. Our job is to get you connected, and then you decide what you want to do together.
Because of that Harvard study that says if you do it together, it’s going to be more joyful than going to the botanical garden on your own—or bowling alone, in the famous words of Robert Putnam.
If we can help people recognize that the starting point is connection, and then what you do, you guys figure it out—that’s the real insight.
In the workplace, help people understand why, and then actually ask them what they want to do.
Removing the Barriers
Susan:
The wheels are turning for me around connection-building in a couple of different spaces.
What I love about what you shared is—and we both understand this in the work that we do—one of the obstacles to taking action toward improving my health is: I don’t know how. I don’t make time. I’ve got a list of excuses.
There are barriers.
What you’re describing is removing the barriers and making it safe. It’s a low point of entry. I can go and test it. I’m not committing to anything. It reduces the fear, opens the door, and makes it easy to try.
Through that experience, I build confidence and comfort.
It’s all the secret behavior science tricks that people like us know.
Pete:
My friend, you couldn’t have said it better than I would have, to be honest with you.
Part of the reason Talk to a Stranger Week is a week long is because Dr. Gillian Sandstrom’s research shows that if you practice the habit of talking to a stranger for seven days, you’ll come out the other end believing you can do it and more likely to continue the habit.
If we did Talk to a Stranger Day, that would be wonderful, but you wouldn’t have had the opportunity to build the habit.
Each one of our campaigns is strategically built to help people take action, just like you described.
If I can help you take the action and build those micro-connections that help you get started, you can build the confidence. You can build the habit, the routine.
Hopefully, in a month or six months, you’re going, My God, this is so easy now. I talk to everybody everywhere I go.
One thing I posted on LinkedIn today, funny enough, was about the super-connectors—the people who do this naturally.
They have such an important role to play in our society because I’m not even sure they understand how impactful their little connections are.
The person who talks to everybody—and we all laugh at them, whether they’re a mom, a dad, a grandparent, or whoever—we need those people to recognize that they truly are superheroes.
Oftentimes, they’re the person who sends out the invite. They’re the person who welcomes people. They’re the person who waves at people on the street.
They may talk to somebody who doesn’t see anybody else the entire week, but you said hello.
None of us knows what’s going on behind the lives of other people.
If we could inspire more people, Susan, to take those little actions, I think we truly change the world.
Talking to Strangers
Susan:
As you were talking, I could think of some super-connectors. I’m definitely a connector. I don’t know if I fit in the “super” category because I’ve got some skill-building to do around talking to strangers.
When people hear this, I think the natural instinct is to say, “How are you?” Which, of course, is one way you can do it.
But are there other things I could do to talk to a stranger besides saying, “How are you?” Other phrases I might try?
Pete:
Let me go a little deeper into the research from Dr. Gillian Sandstrom out of the UK.
When I say “talk to a stranger,” first off, I don’t mean you have to have a 10-minute conversation with every stranger.
A wave can have a positive impact. A nod, a smile at somebody, has a positive impact on another person’s mood.
Recognize that the spectrum of what we mean by talking to a stranger is very wide.
In regard to your opening line, for example, if I was wearing this T-shirt, do you think you have an opening line that would be natural?
I think this is about being observational.
“Hey, what’s your T-shirt all about?”
Dr. Nick Epley talks about this all the time. He saw a lady who was wearing a fancy hat, and he said, “I love your hat.”
That led to an incredible conversation.
So I think just being more aware and conscious of the world around us is the first step.
You can start a conversation with anybody. Holding a door: “Thank you very much.”
Every one of these little things.
And I thank you for asking the question, because I think oftentimes we think it’s so much more difficult when, in actual fact, I’m just saying: just say hello.
There’s one other thing.
When I see somebody who is from a marginalized community, I will go out of my way to look them in the eyes, acknowledge their existence, and smile so they know they do not need to worry about me.
I’ve had many people in marginalized communities say, “Pete, we’re not sure. We walk down the street and somebody may not respond the way…”
I think it’s important to recognize that marginalized communities don’t marginalize themselves. It’s the rest of us who don’t make them feel welcome.
What could I do to make you feel more welcome? To give you a greater sense of inclusion, belonging, community, and connection?
Part of it is acknowledging someone’s existence with a positive gesture—a smile, a wave, a hello—so that person knows, My God, this is a pretty friendly person. Or maybe, This is a friendly street, community, workplace, or classroom.
Again, that’s the consciousness we’re trying to bring to society.
The Power of a Simple Good Morning
Susan:
I appreciate you answering the question that way and bringing in that broader continuum of connection.
I’m going to take my rating back a little bit because I do live in a neighborhood with sidewalks, fortunately, and walking paths.
I make it a point always to see if I can get the person passing by me to at least look me in the eyes or in my direction and do a nod, if not a “good morning.”
My very unscientific assessment is that three years ago, the head would not come up. We were more, I’m looking down. I’m not going to interact with you.
And I feel like lately, more people are looking to see if I’m going to be looking back.
I’m doing more “good mornings” and getting a “good morning” back, or vice versa.
As you’re saying this, there’s hope growing inside me that we’re desperate enough for it that, on the path where years ago there would be nothing, people are trying.
Pete:
Can I tell you my story? Because your story is so beautiful, and I’m grateful you’re doing that.
I walk every morning with my wife and our dog. It’s probably 6:45. Anyone who’s walking or running at 6:45 can’t be a bad person because they’re out there trying to do something positive for themselves—or for a dog, or whatever.
I will tell you, Susan, it is not easy.
I would say 95 percent of the people I pass on the Beltline in Toronto will not say hello first.
We always talk at GenWell about go first.
Because I will tell you that 85 percent of people respond back positively. Ten percent don’t respond at all.
But if I didn’t take the initiative to say good morning or hello or smile at the person, it wouldn’t happen.
This is where leadership—and being people who are willing to be at the forefront of this movement of being human, of being a human-connection catalyst—matters.
We need more people who are willing to go first, because that’s how we start changing the world.
Susan:
Yes. I love it.
I have a friend, Jesse Jacob, who’s an incredible community builder, and I think I learned “go first” from her, as you say that. I think she’s the one who poked a bunch of us to go first.
So shout-out to you and to Jesse for encouraging everybody to go first.

Building a More Connected World
Susan:
We are nearing the end of our time together, and before we wrap with a common ending for this podcast, I want to make sure we hit everything you were hoping we would hit today.
Is there anything you want to share—resources, upcoming events, anything you think is important for folks to hear?
Pete:
People can go to GenWell.ca to find out more about the movement.
We have six national campaigns. The next one is GenWell Weekend, September 18th to 20th, when we’re encouraging people around the world to reach out and build connection.
Whether it’s one person for a coffee, 10 for a hike, a barbecue, or a street party, what you do is not the important thing. It’s just about being part of the solution to building a more connected world.
At the end of November, I’ll also highlight that it’s Talk to a Stranger Week.
We all should start talking to strangers because the insight is very clear: it makes us happier, and it makes the people we connect with happier as well.
Outside of that, Susan, I just want to say thanks for a great conversation. I really enjoyed it.
Susan:
I did too. The time flew by.
And since this is ROOTED, the way I end is with a series of random questions that I call Natural Favorites.
There are no right or wrong answers. It’s just a way for people to get to know you in a little bit of a different way.
Would you like to play?
Pete:
All right, fire away. I’m always happy to play.
Natural Favorites
Susan:
All right. Favorite place to spend time outdoors with others?
Pete:
Well, last night we were at our cabin in the woods, and we had a campfire with about 10 or 12 people sitting around it, talking and singing and laughing.
There is nothing better than a campfire and a bunch of people.
Susan:
Hear, hear. I agree. I love it.
Is there a tree, landscape, season, or something in nature that’s especially meaningful to you?
Pete:
This is something I’ve discovered over the last decade. The most important thing to me in nature is water.
I have no idea why, but preferably moving water. So that’s probably an ocean.
But as I look out at a lake here, and the waves are moving because a boat just went by, there’s something about moving water.
I have to imagine there’s science behind it—whether it’s about calming, whether it’s about feeling at one, at peace.
I just find that any type of water, but moving water especially, really makes me feel grounded in the world.
Susan:
Yeah. Flow is what some would say. If that body has movement, it feels like you can move.
And I’m going to send you the podcast I listened to today about connection because he actually talked about water as a metaphor for one of the types of deep connection relationships he described.
I’ll share it with you. I’d love to hear your perspective on it, and I’ll put it in the show notes, too, for folks who are listening.
Okay, last one.
You have in your hand a dandelion flower that has gone to seed. You get to make a wish.
What’s your wish?
Pete:
I feel like I’ve just beat the dead horse on this one!
I wish for a more connected world, where we have greater passion for each other and look out for one another, versus—as you touched on earlier in the conversation—the hyper-individualistic, hyper-competitive world that we’ve created over the last few decades.
Obviously, there are some people who would suggest that they are the winners, but I’m not sure anybody’s a winner when we live in an isolated and lonely world.
Susan:
Yeah.
Be human and be connected.
Being human and connected is the best way to be human.
Pete:
Absolutely, my friend. I really appreciate the time.
Susan:
I do too. Thank you.

Susan Bailey